Rise and fall of a Toyota icon

"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse) 02/28/2015 at 14:44 • Filed to: Toyota Hiace

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I bring you the Hiace van, which reached our shores with this model in the 1970s.

Probably the only forward control (engine under the seats) van around at the time, it became hugely popular in a short space of time because it was another reliable Toyota. Soon it was so ubiquitous that medium sized vans were generically called Hiaces and people would talk about a Ford hiacevan or any other make that arose. The one little fly in the ointment was the lack of a diesel, not such a thing then as it would be now, and once this was rectified the Hiace was everywhere. Soon the other Japanese companies joined in the fun and we had Mazda, Mitsubishi and Nissan forward control vans. Life was wonderful if you were a Japanese maker.

Then, gradually, imperceptibly, things began to go wrong. The European makers who had been almost forgotten began to come back. Renault, Fiat, Ford, Peugeot, they all began to infiltrate the Japanese pleasure garden. ("What", I hear the Americans cry. "No Chevy this and Ford that with huge petrol V8s and automatic boxes and 10mpg on a good day?" No, van buyers want to make a living, not keep Opec in business). They had traditional front engined vans but with non traditional front wheel drive (except the Ford Transit which didn't hold with that malarkey) so they were little longer than the Hiace but had better perceived safety. Soon the Japanese retreated. Toyota were last man standing and writing was seen upon the wall. Forward control vans no longer met safety regs and so we moved to this design (pic by Mr Choppers/ Wiki)

And then Toyota packed it all in, in Europe at least. Out went the Hiace, in came the ProAce which is a rebadged Peugeot/Fiat design.

So there you have it. The rise and fall of a motoring icon.

TheHondaBro > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 14:46

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Crumple zone? Heh.

Cé hé sin > TheHondaBro 02/28/2015 at 14:50

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Different times. Here's a contemporary Nissan:

duurtlang > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 14:51

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The Japanese and their attitude to the European market is strange. They sometimes have an excellent product that's different but which fits the market (like your 1970s Hiace example). However, when they get competition they're not fully committed (after the 1980s) and are eventually competed out of the market.

There are multiple examples. The vans, but Honda and Daihatsu as a whole come to mind as well.

Cé hé sin > duurtlang 02/28/2015 at 14:55

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Yes, zero to hero and right back again. Honda and Subaru went the same way (except in America).

Hino trucks are another perfect example. Arrived, prospered, vanished into a niche.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 14:57

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Toyota Hiace still going strong here, with added diesel. The choice for every handyman out there.

Cé hé sin > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut 02/28/2015 at 14:58

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That wouldn't meet our safety regs. Compare it to the white one I showed which has a bonnet and was withdrawn even so.

It looks weird as well.

duurtlang > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 15:02

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Well, the white one you pictured is (I believe) based on the 1989 Hiace, so it isn't all that odd it was retired. It does illustrate the problem; Toyota never bothered to offer a new vehicle (in Europe), even though the van market in Europe is HUGE and the Toyota vans had a great name for reliability.

DavidHH > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 15:19

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"No Chevy this and Ford that with huge petrol V8s and automatic boxes and 10mpg on a good day?"

My Econoline gets 13 to 15 MPG when not being used as a job site truck. Most American Vans get better than 10 MPG.

Since when was the 351W a huge petrol V8, and when was a Ford three speed overdrive an automatic?

KnowsAboutCars > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 15:25

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Hiace was the best selling van in Finland for a long time (up until they stopped selling them). A relative of mine has owned at least 3 or 4 of them. One of the reasons why Toyota pulled the plug was emissions.

duurtlang > DavidHH 02/28/2015 at 15:28

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A V8, any normal sized V8, is oversized for a van from a European perspective.

I got close to 40 mpg (US gallons, not UK gallons) in a lightly loaded 6 speed manual full size van, cruising on the German Autobahn. On a fuel type (diesel) that's cheaper than gasoline here.

DavidHH > duurtlang 02/28/2015 at 15:42

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Uh, when I lived in the U.K. many of the petrol vans in the U.K got worse fuel economy than my van, despite having 4 and 6 cylinder engines. The engine size had to do with road taxes.

Case in point I owned an 86 American Ford Escort with a 1.9 litter engine that got 39 MPG, and later a 84 British Ford Escort 1.1 litter engine that got 28 MPG. The smaller engines also $ucked. Case in point my wife's Peugeot had a 1.1 litter and was dying at 65K miles.

Your van was not a 1500lb payload van I take it.

duurtlang > DavidHH 02/28/2015 at 15:55

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Engine displacement has never been taxed where I live, neither has horsepower. Both my Peugeots are at about 240k km and both are barely broken in. They do have more displacement than 1.1 liters though.

Anyway, the van I was talking about was one of these, available in the US as a Ram Promaster I believe. I drove the people carrier version, with 8 grown men inside. It had a 2.x liter turbodiesel with a slick 6 speed manual transmission. It obviously did worse in city traffic.

Cé hé sin > DavidHH 02/28/2015 at 15:57

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I haven't a clue what a 351W is but while 13-15 mpUSg might be good for you no van owner here would be able to piss away money like that. It's been thirty or so years since any kind of commercial vehicle was available here with a petrol engine. Paying slightly over €1 per litre excluding tax will do that for you.

Cé hé sin > KnowsAboutCars 02/28/2015 at 16:04

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They could have met the emissions regs but the lack of sales in most places made it uneconomic to do so. The Hiace was unbeatable here for years but then just fell away throughout the 2000s. By the time the end came in 2013 it was a rare sight.

fhrblig > DavidHH 02/28/2015 at 16:26

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I don't know where you got your info on the big American vans. Try 15-16 mpg while being mostly unkillable.

We tried to use the Ford Transit Connects, and never will again. 25 mpg does you no good when the transmissions fail at 60k.

DavidHH > duurtlang 02/28/2015 at 16:32

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I've only got 540 K miles on the Econoline, but I did have to rebuild the engine and replace the gearbox 20K ago. As for power, it carries 1500lbs and can pull a trailer that weights as much as the van does while fully loaded.

I looked up the Ram Promaster. It is a FWD with an automatic trans, both total deal stoppers for me. The expected fuel economy is 17 MPG here with emissions controls. Since that is only two MPG better than my Econoline, unless my Econcoline vanishes, I lose one leg and warm up to FWD, I doubt that I would even consider it. As my van costs less than $500 / year in care and feeding.

Cé hé sin > fhrblig 02/28/2015 at 16:35

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25 mpg in a Connect? What did you have, a petrol one? Gearboxes last forever. Did you have an automatic or something?

DavidHH > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 16:37

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The 351W was the best engine Ford has made to date. My went 520k miles before needing a rebuild. As for the fuel costs, I've used vans in the U.K. that got worse, the last being a rented Citron Diesel FWD that got horrible mileage [about 10MPG] a decade ago. Mind you I only use my van when I need a van, as owning more than one car here is cheap, no MOT or other BS. So the cost for fuel is not bad, as Diesel would get better, if I used it for long trips, but that only happens when I move.

DavidHH > fhrblig 02/28/2015 at 16:49

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I own a Econoline with a 351W, four speed manual trans without AC. I can get 13 to 15 unless I use it as a job site van, with very short trips, then it can get as low as 10 MPG. But that happens when you start a vehicle just to move it a few dozen feet. The original engine and trans lasted 520K miles before needing a major rebuild. I won't sell it, and would never consider a Ford Transit Connect, or any other weak product like the new FWD Dodge Vans.

duurtlang > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 17:09

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The US market is strange like that. Most, if not all, Connects are manual+diesel here. Yet in the US automatic+gasoline is the only way you can get one if I'm not mistaken.

fhrblig > DavidHH 02/28/2015 at 17:18

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We have a couple of the Ram Cargo vans (aka Caravan), and I LOVE those things. They have the Pentastar-V6 and get 24-25 mpg, and have way too much power. They've been very reliable, except one of them just had to replace the #5 cylinder head. It's the first major repair for it, at 140k.

fhrblig > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 17:22

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All US Transit Connects were 4-cylinder gas and 4-speed automatics. Both the engines and transmissions were execrable. But it wasn't just that; the interiors were shit, too. The quality was worse than 80s Hyundai. Literally every moving part would break off, from seat levers to window cranks to mirrors.

FalconHoon > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 17:26

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2jz hiace:

Toyota Hiace V8 turbo Van:

V8 LS1 hiace van on nitros, daily driver, burnouts, wheelies.:

DavidHH > fhrblig 02/28/2015 at 17:29

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You've got the Commercial Version of the Dodge mini-vans? Unless you had the misfortune to get one with a Mitsubishi V6, these mini vans are great. A friend of mine with five kids and two step children has beaten a few of these to death and it took far longer than most mini-vans would survive. 55 MPH on muddy roads, full of kids, no problem. Missed oil changes and hard use, and they only asked for more. My only problem is since I experienced brake failure on an automatic car on the continental divide, when I was young, I have not trusted automatics at all.

fhrblig > DavidHH 02/28/2015 at 17:39

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Ours are 2013 models, I think. They are great, but it looks like we are shying away from small vans because they aren't proving to be any cheaper And the capacity of the big vans is turning out to be more what we need.

Cé hé sin > DavidHH 02/28/2015 at 18:31

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What in the wide world did you do to a medium sized van that you got 10mpg out of it? You'd expect about 8 from a 40 tonne truck.

DavidHH > Cé hé sin 02/28/2015 at 20:58

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What? We rented it, moved with it and the the fuel economy was horrible for the size. What other people did to it was apparent since it was just a few years old and totally falling apart. I've driven an American Ford based uhaul van that was a rental for a decade and it was not falling apart.

There is a reason that Citron is also the name for a type of Lemon. Citron is not exactly France's best automaker, but if you are French you should know that, as the best French car I know of was the Peugeot 504 Diesel, and if it wasn't for the rust and the brake rotors it would have been a Mercedes quality car. Citron has never made anything that good to my knowledge, but it did make the DS, a most horrible car to own.....

DavidHH > fhrblig 02/28/2015 at 21:40

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Understood. If you want fuel economy and a full size van, check out VIA MOTORS, as they make GM full sized SUV's and Vans into plug in Hybrids, that being electric drive, they don't have a fragile automatic trans, and go about 60 miles on a charge. Afterwards the V6 powers them via a generator. The only problems are they cost more, and they don't usually do non-fleet sales.

Unfortunately Ford and Dodge are currently a risky proposition since they are currently selling new models, and I never recommend the first years. And modern automatics are very ,very expensive to fix. But I know someone who bought a newer GM work van and it's tough. The toughest mini van was the Astro, but those have been out of production since the S10 was canceled.